Norman Maclean’s novella,
A River Runs Through It, has an interesting back story. As youngsters, Norman and his brother Paul lived in Helena and Missoula where their father was a Presbyterian minister.
The brothers were fighters and daredevils, and some still remember their antics. Paul later worked for the Helena and Great Falls newspapers, earning a fine reputation as House reporter during the 1930s legislative sessions. In 1938, Norman was teaching at the University of Chicago, and Paul had almost completed his masters degree in English there. In the wee hours of May 3, 1938, Paul was beaten to death in a back alley. Terry Dwyer of the
Great Falls Tribune worked with Paul and knew him as a good reporter, but also as a man who would never back down from a fight. Many believed Paul’s murder was mob related—that he owed money, or knew something for which he needed silencing. But the murder was never solved, and Norman had to come to terms with his brother’s death. After he retired from teaching Shakespeare, Norman, at the age of seventy, took up writing. He cast his wild brother as that artistically perfect, but flawed, fly fisherman in
A River Runs Through It. As Norman wrote the novella so many years later, he confronted demons of the past, discussing his brother’s death publicly for the first time. Norman’s daughter, Jean Maclean Snyder, told the
Livingston Enterprise that her father believed you come to terms with something by understanding it. Norman finally reconciled Paul’s senseless death through his writing. “All good things,” he wrote, “come by grace and grace comes by art and art does not come easy.”
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Helena District Judge Henry Keenan knew both Paul and Norman well and covered the Montana 1937 legislative session working for Paul. He has a lot of insight on the murder and feels it wasnt mob related.He knew Paul as feisty ,belligerant and would fight at the drop of a hat.Judge Keenan said Paul was a good reporter though. He thought very highly of Norman and also his wife Jessie ;
ReplyDeleteFrank Schlenzig
Hi, I am a cousin to Paul Davidson and Norman Fitzroy Maclean from Canada. Norman and Paul's dad stayed on our farms in Manitoba in 1889 and was introduced to Clara by my great, great grandfather and his cousin who is also a Maclean. We were told Paul's death had to do with his gambling debts as being also related to his mother's side as well. We have. It in our family books in Manitoba he was killed in Chicago. If you need more info on Norman or his dad I would be glad to help.
ReplyDeleteAndrew Kelly
Yes, I agree that the murder was probably over gambling debts. I have written another piece on this topic elsewhere and done quite a bit of research. Should I ever expand it, I would definitely be most interested in talking with you. Thanks for your comment!
DeleteMy email is Andrew.rkelly1@gmail.com
DeleteSo sad!!!
DeleteJust curious, does anyone have any information as to where the Rev. Maclean recieved his seminary training?
DeleteAndrew, why does Paul and Norman have different last names? Don't they have the same parents?
DeleteThey do have the same last name. Norman Fitzroy Maclean and Paul Davidson Maclean.
DeleteHere is what I know, which information I have shared with Norman's daughter who is a well respected attorney here in Chicago. I am 65, and have lived in Chicago all my life, having graduated from Northwestern. When I was 16, my father cautioned me about the dangers of my gambling since he had a friend who was beaten to death for gambling debts. Immediately afterwards, my father started sucking air as if he had said something he had not meant to say. Seven years later I confronted my father about my feelings that he had some deep dark secret in his past. Once again, he looked totally freaked out. (My sister who is a high powered lawyer who has a national reputation came to a similar conclusion.) But my father went to his grave without revealing his secret in part because he quit drinking in 1947 when my sister was born. In 1938, my father lived on the 6400 block of South Vernon in Chicago, which is exactly one full block away from the 6400 block of South Rhodes, which is where Paul was killed. (Only Euclid Avenue is in between.) My father was a wild man free spirit outdoors fisherman womanizer booze hound who was from North Dakota, and he was a Presbyterian. Paul was the same except that he was from Montana. Given that Chicago was (and to a lesser extent still is) a city of neighborhood bars, I would be very surprised if he and Paul did not know each other. (Indeed, what attracted me so much to the movie of "A River Runs Through It," was the similarity between Paul's character and my father's was as to what imagined him as a young man in his twenties. In the movie, Paul is killed in Montana, and only in the past five years did I discover the true facts of Paul's death. It blew me away.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your perspective and your comments! I agree with you. It was a small world (and still is) in many respects. They likely did know each other, and maybe your dad knew something about the murder. So interesting to speculate! Thank you!
DeleteThe fact all the bones in his hand were broken indicate a couple things. First, breaking a hand in the gambling world is the punishment for cheating although it could be related to debt. Second, that his hand was either broken in a vice or with a sledge hammer. In that case my guess is he was tortured/punished and murdered somewhere other than the alley his body was discovered in. The alley was simply a body dump.
DeleteI just don't understand in the movie why Paul had to be murdered in Chicago rather than Montana. I love the flick so much, so that difference blew me away.
DeleteDoes anyone have any idea?
Ken - Osaka, Japan
He was killed in MONTANA in the flick. Sorry about the typo. Ken
DeleteI have an idea why he was killed in Montana and not Illinois. It's a fictitious story, that's why its called a n-o-v-e-l lol
DeleteYep, and you put your rear end on your head instead of your brains when you wake-up.
DeleteI am Paul's cousin and his death was real just the place where he died was not.
Anonymous - I have a guess about why Paul was killed in MT in the movie. Remember toward the end when the 3 of them were fishing together? Norman asks Paul to come to Chicago. Paul looks out of the river w/ a wistful, far-away look; turns back to his brother with a grin and says, "I'll never leave Montana. Remember their father would describe Paul as "beautiful." Paul was a sensitive, deep-feeling "fisherman." Only the most brilliant hearts among us can feel opposites at the same time - only the natural world of rivers, mountains, etc. can create the home for that type of heart. Of course he could never leave Montana, and perhaps his brother knew this. Perhaps Norman played the "If only" game for the rest of his life when he thought about the loss of his brother . . . "If only he hadn't left Montana."
DeleteI think you are closest to the point. Norman and Paul always felt strong about Montana in their sentiments. There are places folks feel a great attachment about, no matter how far away they may be and no matter how much time has passed. Norman said: And there could be no better place to learn than the Montana of my youth. It was a world with dew still on it more touched by wonder and possibility than any I have since known.
DeleteThanks a lot guys for your comments. You have helped me understand why. Paul would have lived to be 70, or 80 in Montana. Ken
DeleteMany theories spun from my cousin Paul's death, from the Indian lady he went with in Montana, Montana, the baseball game in the 1930's with a black lady to gambling debts. My guess, (if I had to put money on it lol) is gambling debts. You can take the gambler out of the one environment, however, when that environment follows you that is a different story.
ReplyDeleteHi Ken;
ReplyDeleteI am Norman Maclean's cousin from Canada and I think I can help you about why Paul was killed in Montana instead of Chicago in the book and movie.
1) Norman did have regrets in bringing Paul to Chicago because of his behavior and attributes he brought along with him.
2) Norman was most likely writing about in some cases an apology for about Paul's death, in some cases the emphases on words etc.
3) Norman wrote in the book as well he was killed in Montana. Reasons unknown.
Hope this helps.
The Paul he knew died inMontana?
DeleteHi Andrew,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for your prompt reply from Manitoba. I’m more than happy to have heared from you! You really helped not just me: my wife and a friend of mine, who all are 'haunted' by that movie and the book as well.
In the movie when Norman goes “What do you say? Come with us (to Chicago)”, then Paul replies, “I’ll never leave Montana, brother”. So that scene, now I guess, is a point of frog, how Norman wanted the real life to be. Paul is murdered in Montana later anyway though. I guess I have not been aware enough of Norman’s feeling of regret while watching the movie over and over again. It’s a shame.
Again, thanks a lot. I have been even thinking of planning to visit Lolo Hot Springs, where Paul was supposed to be murdered! Do not worry, thanks to your advice, we love the movie again, feeling like watching it again soon.
Cheers,
Ken
Read the book, it fills in a lot of details that cannot be captured in a movie.
DeleteWhy didnt they show any type of funeral services in the movie to prove paul was actually murdered them saying he was murdered could've been a way to get him away
DeleteOff topic, the film is brilliant with words. I think the answers you seek are in the poetry in the end of this film. The father's last sermon that Norman attended, adding the poetry. I think his words painted pictures that we would spend a lifetime trying to grasp a single word that could reach that deep.
ReplyDelete'Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs.
I am haunted by waters.'
'Each one of us here today will at one time in our lives look upon a loved one who is in need and ask the same question: We are willing to help, Lord, but what, if anything, is needed? For it is true we can seldom help those closest to us. Either we don't know what part of ourselves to give or, more often than not, the part we have to give is not wanted. And so it is those we live with and should know who elude us. But we can still love them - we can love completely without complete understanding.'
In saying all this. I think from my perspective, Norman wanted to remember 'the fine fisherman' and the character of man his brother was in a whole, with regret lurking from his shoulder. He buried his brother more than once, through words. God bless.
-Victoria Hope
'Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs'. Whose? The ancients? The waters? I have that book just so I can have those words in my home.
DeleteFirst read this in the early 80s and over the years have returned to the "elude us" passage more times than I care to recount, but somehow it does me good.
DeleteThat is typical of that generation of Maclean's of not talking about somebody after they died.
ReplyDeleteUs Manitoba Macleans had the same thinking.
Where is their graves
DeleteThank you so much for your participation here. Moving story.
DeletePaul Davidson Maclean
DeleteBIRTH 2 Nov 1905
Clarinda, Page County, Iowa
DEATH 2 May 1938 (aged 32)
Chicago, Cook County, Illinois
BURIAL
Missoula Cemetery
Missoula, Missoula County, Montana
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/28112738/paul-davidson-maclean
Paul's death is so sad. What a beautiful person, lost forever.
ReplyDeleteI think that Paul saying he would never leave Montana and the book having him killed in Montana is a metaphor for never being able to take the Montana out of Paul. Probably, even though he was in Chicago, Paul still acted like he was back in Montana; drinking, gambling and fighting. Of which all three, more than likely, led to his death.
ReplyDeletegood point on metaphor of never really leaving Montana. One other note, I wonder if anybody could colaborate a story I read which is either true or not true that Paul "begged" Norman for help but Norman refused. I would like to believe the story false but maybe somebody knows more.
ReplyDeleteHi I am Paul Maclean's cousin. Norman helped Paul by relocating him to Chicago to break away from his habits. But old habits die hard. Norman's dad the Rev. John Norman Maclean wanted to help Paul as much as he could. The words of Rev Maclean, "was there anything more I could have done for Paul?"
ReplyDeleteEvery father who's ever lost a son to bad habits probably askes himself that same question. My grandparents lost 2 children, it's not something they ever got over.
DeleteThis was after Paul died. Norman shipped Paul's body back to Montana. The Indian girl in the movie was @ Paul's funeral. Norman had great sorrow and we think part of his motive to write, "A River Runs Through It" was also for a release of Paul's death not to be a cloud over Norman's head.
ReplyDeleteGet over yourself
DeleteWow...
DeleteThanks Andrew, I'll try to be respectful in what I write. I agree that Norman had "great sorrow". I wonder if he felt a touch of guilt also, which may also been a motive for the book. It seems Norman wanted to help but maybe felt helpless in trying to help because maybe Paul was beyond help. idk, just speculating. I also wonder, did Jessie have any part in trying to "help". Thanks
ReplyDeleteWe know that Paul was always happy for Norman and Jessie I would imagine that she did her part to help Paul. Jessie did convert over to the Presbyterian faith from being what Rev Maclean said, "A Baptist that can read and write" however, I am not sure how big of a role. Jessie is also another distant cousin from me as I am related on both sides of the family.
ReplyDeleteJessie was a Methodist, which, in the movie, the father describes as "Baptists who can read."
DeleteI am watching ARRTI, again. Father and boys are fishing for the last time, unbeknownst to all three. And Paul (Brad) is as beautiful as he must have been in life. As described by Norman. I have no ties to this family, but the book and movie haunt me well. The bittersweet journeys of this family toward Paul's tragic end, and the imprint his being left on all of them, and the regret they carried with them throughout the rest of their lives like ghosts perched on their shoulders are haunting reminders to us all that life and love and death are forever intertwined and fleeting.
ReplyDeleteWell said.
Delete“Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs.
I am haunted by waters.”
Norman Maclean
Been to the actual place where Paul last fished with Norman and his dad (my cousin) the Rev. J.N. Maclean.
ReplyDeleteI am going to northern Montana in October to fish where is the site your talking about
DeleteGo to Seeley Lake and ask at the Grizzly Claw for the River Keeper. He can show you.
DeleteIn the movie the father said Paul changed the spelling of their name. Is that true?
DeleteAs Norman is haunted by waters, everyone is haunted by Paul's death. Wonderful story and movie, but a tradic end to a beautiful person, relationship and life.
ReplyDeleteHi Andrew, where is the actual place where Paul, Norm and Dad last fished together? Me and my wife are visiting Montana this summer partly to look around the footsteps of the Mclean story and the movie. Could you suggest any place for us, if possible? Thanks. Ken
ReplyDeleteHi Ken; Paul's last place is located near Charles Linburgh's summer house a green coloured house. It is by the Bellmount River as the area is called Bellmount and the Bellmount river is near by. It is down a steep hill and looking across is a gorge with red coloured trees growing out of it.
ReplyDeleteA good place to stay is either the hotel I stayed at just as you come into town Selley Lake motor in, or the double Arrow lodge
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for your quick turnaround Andrew! We will definitely stop by at Selley Lake. Ken
ReplyDeleteHi again Andrew,
ReplyDeleteWould you think or know if Paul had a chance to fish in the east after relocated (by Norman) to Chicago? Fishing must have been an old habit of his, too. Just wondering. Thanks a lot. Ken
Unknown if he did go fishing in Chicago. We know that Paul worked for the Chicago Tribune and the University of Chicago newspaper. Unknown if he ever went fishing, he was hung over when he went to work @ around 1:00PM in the afternoon and worked until 7:00PM till 8:00PM. The Indian lady in the movie who hung around Brad Pitt in the movie did in real life attended Paul's funeral. I will have to ask my cousins that part. I know that his death may have been linked to either:
ReplyDelete1) the mob
2) Indian lady he hung around with in Chicago
3) black lady he went with to a Chicago Cubs game with
Other theories have spun out. Here is a link to Norman's life, I tried to put on the Missoulan article from 2000 but this program will not allow that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Maclean
What is your source for saying Paul worked for the Tribune? He worked for the University of Chicago in the public information department, I was told. There was and is no University of Chicago newspaper.
DeleteNorman's son John worked for the Tribune for 30 years. http://JohnMacleanBooks.com Perhaps that's what Andrew was thinking? ... Not many trout streams in Illinois. ;\
DeleteNothing in Biblepreachers post is factual. Paul did not work for the Chicago Tribune. I did. He did not work for the Maroon, the U of C newspaper. Those are not the hours he worked. The Indian lady was long gone by the time he died. The mob didn't kill him, he didn't hang around with an Indian lady in Chiago, and he went to a White Sox game the afternoon before he died with an Irish nurse. God almightly, where do you get this garbage? John N. Maclean
DeleteMy info came from third hand from my cousins the Davidsons (the ones have told me are now long gone as of last year my source passed away) and research. I did get an anonymous email about 3 years ago that had Paul's writtings and about 3-4 confessions of who might have killed him. However, that email has disappeared. It is hard to get a straight story as 3-4th hand info the stories change and looked for a common thread with the stories.
DeleteHowever, the Rev J.N. Maclean and my great great grandfather were 3rd cousins and knew each other as he knew my great great grandfather's brother a presbyterian minister Rev Kenneth Hector Maclean from Antigonish Presbyterian church.
DeleteMy great great grandfather knew John Davidson (Clara's dad) long before the Rev J.N. Maclean showed up. They would meet at the market or town dues. They booth were in the same places and haunt. The biography of my grandfather's brother Rev Hector Kenneth Maclean proves They being cousins knew each other and knew my grandfather
DeleteThanks once again Andrew.
ReplyDeleteLife without fishing must have been tough for Paul, if that's the case. At least there might not be trout rivers he would enjoy in the east.
I hope to fish the same area some day with my boys, or atleast some of the same rivers that they fished. I saw the movie in the theater when it first came out. The book and movie always haunted me even after countless re-reads and watches. I am very happy that people are still talking about the family. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteHi Andrew, you mentioned a black women and Cubs game two times in this post..please explain what happened. Was it race relations? I read from other sources about Paul and others say Paul would like to instigate, antagonize or just plain go out looking for fights. I wonder if he finally picked a fight with the wrong guy/group? and got what was coming to him.
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous;
ReplyDeletePaul was a rebellious type child as also pictured in the movie, "A River Runs Through It" he tried to change the last name to McLean . In Scottish terms that is an insult as it makes us as low landers.
Regarding the baseball game, yes Paul did go with a black lady as he had no intentions of following the order of the day. He would go out with Indian or black ladies back then. I guess it was to show a form of rebellion to his dad, (my cousin) the Rev John N Maclean. Paul was bailed out secretly a few times. Norman brought Paul to Chicago to get a clean start in life,however, Paul's vices came along as well. After Paul was killed the Indian lady he went to the speak easy with came to his funeral.
Again, what is your source about Paul going out with a black woman? Or is that speculation?
DeleteMy source about Paul was from a person no longer living second hand and wife of the late Herbert Ward Davidson Clara's sibbling.
DeleteHi Andrew, We just came back from Montana. We had a chance to talk with a lady at Seeley Lake Visitor Center. She has met Norman's son and daugher in person. Also, the town is expecting its 25-year anniversary event in September; one of the guests is Tom Skerritt. Ken
ReplyDeletehi Ken;
ReplyDeleteShe might have meet me too, if she was the one at the museum. I supplied the info on Clara Davidson and her parents. My side of the Maclean family knew the Davidson's a few years before the Rev Maclean did. I know they are having a festival this year. My health is not the greatest so I stay here in Alberta Canada until things change.
You're not making much sense, much of what you claim to know has been disputed by a number of people. Probably best to stop making yourself part of something you're not.
DeleteLike I said, the info I have was told second hand and those have dried up as they have perrished. I love to see documented proof but those archive are closed I am a half cousin. Long story
DeleteDear Andrew,
ReplyDeleteYes, the museum, where some old stuffs from Maclean's summer house are exhibited. That would be awesome if we could come back to join you in Seeley Lake, but we cannot either. Take care Andrew. Thanks. Ken
Hi Andrew,
ReplyDeleteBefore hitting Seeley Lake and the museum, we stopped by former Norman Maclean’s house and the first presbyterian church right across the street in Missoula. A funny thing was that the neighbors today, including a young gentleman now living in the house, did not seem to know or care very much about the Macleans. After Seeley Lake, we visited Bozeman and Livingston, where the Redford’s movie was filmed. Some of the buildings, as typified by “The Police Station”, were still standing as they had looked on the movie.
So I guess the last line of the novella "I am haunted by waters" is Normans guilt in not being able to help Paul. After reading this blog it sounds like Paul had it coming to him. Great story, great writing. I think this story is Norman feeling guilt for not helping Paul. Its funny, the father is a minister, and Paul is a wild man, throwing caution to the wind.
ReplyDeleteMaybe.. Paul said he'd never leave Montana, and his death being depicted there instead of Chicago is representative of Paul's life in that no matter where he went the result was going to be the same.. fishing and gambling were who he was no matter where he ended up.. maybe Norman was saying that even had he been in Montana, his ways woulda caught up with him..they were such different times, it seems his rebellious ways and refusal to comform with societal norms might of pissed a few people off!! Such a beautiful story of love of fishing and family!! - Mandy
ReplyDeleteHave, not "of".
DeleteI would like to suggest an alternative possibility as to the reason for NMac's writing, and address the ideas of guilt and 'haunted by waters.'
ReplyDeleteThere are many comparisons between the Maclean family and mine. I am a Christian pastor in East Helena, Montana. My oldest son, much like NMac, is a successful businessman in Seattle. My youngest son, much like PMac, lost his life this past October at the age of 29, needlessly because of his inability to receive help forthe problem he dealt with. With that background, my perspective is this:
Norman did not feel guilt. He tried to help Paul, and was frustrated and saddened by Paul's inability to receive help. Sadness and frustration also felt by their father, who from the book and movie, loved both of his boys. John's desire for Norman to write the story was to try to make sense of a wasted life that showed so much promise ... especially through fishing.
My estimation is that NMac was haunted by waters because it vicerally represents the family sadness of a young life lost that would never be on the water again.
So sorry for your loss. I, lost my husband to suicide 21 years ago because he would not stay in therapy. Our daughters were 9 and 7 then. A River Runs Through It parallels that loss.
DeleteI have a friend going through serious drug problems. He does not accept nor try to help himself. Its fustrating because we know with Gods help he can be saved, but he refuses to make that inititial step of faith. He's lost. I agree with Pastor Richards. God Bless both you and Ms. Kelly.
DeleteI agree with your interpretation. Also have personal experience with a sibling who couldn’t, wouldn’t be helped, no matter how many angles I tried. While there always are the mild guilts indulgences of “what if I had...,” in truth I know better. She was walking her own path the way she chose, demons and all. It feels wasteful and the loss is deep, and never resolved.
DeleteFor me, the story can be summed up by Paul's line from the movie "Well, maybe what he likes is somebody trying to help him." In reference to Jessie's brother, but perhaps also about himself. The waters, however, haunted Norman perhaps because it was there that his brother was perfect, regardless of what was happening in his day to day life.
ReplyDeleteThis is all interesting reading. I've long been a fan of the book and have always tried to find more information about Paul Maclean and the timeline of his life. Fact is most people who knew him are also not with us. What strikes me most are some of the pieces of the story that tend to rise up from myth and fiction - his obituary states he was a champion handball player in a Chicago. That's an interesting fact. He also attended Dartmouth and played football there but I can find no record of this. He died 80 years ago of mysterious circumstances but really it's his life I'm more interested in - in one way he seemed to follow in his older brother's footsteps in all he did, but was also trying to be his own person. Really hard to imagine that this guy fought and drank as much as he did or if that's all just romantization - and further what would be the psychological need for him to do this? The societal implications of manhood were strong within the River story - Ina hundred years so much has changed, for the better. These guys had to play tough. Just fun to try and piece his life together - so far I can assemble only a very small amount of info to make a Wikipedia page or similar. If anyone has any info to provide please let me know.
ReplyDeleteI'm replying to my own post here - I think much is made of drinking and gambling and womanizing and fighting. Im speculating - but I honestly don't think this is what made Paul unique as I'd imagine most rough blue collar young men of the era engaged in this sort of thing. Gambling was entertainment in a rural area. As was drinking. Not sure how much womanizing one could do in a town with maybe a few dozen young women. Further anyone who has been in a fight knows that teeth really do get knocked out - skulls can get fractured and noses easily broken. Pictures I've seen of Paul look completely normal- there is one pic where he seems to have a black eye. Also i think he was maybe five foot 8. Tall for the era but perhaps not very big? But my point is that he was a relatively white collar guy caught up in some low brow type stuff. I do think he either drank and liked to "party" as I've seen written, but as to whether he was a full blown addict is another thing. As far as his death we are all speculating. Everyone refers to gambling debts but I think this is too easy and goes back to the romantic gambling man - but really we have no evidence of that besides reference from a book that uses a lot of poetic license. I find it just as likely, based on the accounts in the newspaper after he died, that he was out and got blind drunk and walked home through chicago in the middle of the night and was jumped and beaten and suffered the fatal injury early on. Nearly all the bones in his hand being broken comes from the book and not fact, I don't believe. I think he was a drunk who got mugged. But what do I know. It's always more fun to concoct a mysterious story but perhaps it was no more than that. it may have had nothing to do with his job or who he was as a person. But as I said I'm really more interested in putting together a timeline of his life based on whatever info we have.
DeleteDo more research. Read the quotes from colleagues who worked under him. He sounds worse than Norman lets on. Do your hw.
DeleteHave done that, thanks. Widely available on the internet but it's just quotes from one or two people and at that it's vague. I think I'm intrigued by the idea of a person who is belligerent and eager to fight, and drinks heavily would make it anywhere in the world. It speaks of another time, I've just always wondered if perhaps that time has been romanticized to the point where who he was has been simplified - what's odd too is the guy looked like Montgomery Clift. When Norman and his father referred to him as beautiful, they may have also been referring to his physical appearance. Also, as a man in those times to be kind of have serious movie star looks, perhaps you had to be belligerent. Perhaps there was a notion that such men were effeminate. Maybe he felt he had something to prove. All conjecture - but the story has always felt incomplete to me. In a good way. That's poetic license that Norman refers to, but I have always wanted to connect the dots. A few sentences from an intern on a Helena newspaper doesn't reveal much. I also don't feel that Paul Maclean was some non-functioning addict. If he was an alcoholic, he was highly functioning. I suppose my question was what are some further sources - a quote above said he got to work on 1 on the day he died a son he was hungover. Just curious what the source is. Simple questions but perhaps there are no answers. The man died 80 years ago. And were it not for his older brother's book, the guy would just be an anybody - as are we all
ReplyDeleteI agree with the notion that he "would make it anywhere in the world". The guy seemed like he can do anything. We differ on "beautiful". I think its the persona as a whole that Norman was talking about. This includes looks, intelligence, social attributes. To me, it seemed Paul could do anything that he wanted. The guy was fearless. From our point of view, the guy had no blemishes, he was perfect....You and I probably read the same quotes from the same sources from the same paper. i couldn't find one positive note on this guy. My guess is that where there's smoke, there's fire. Also, I can't find any hint that Paul attended Dartmouth. I'm thinking he did stay in Montana after all and Norman used "poetic license". Read Andrew Kellys post above and you'll see that Paul was dysfunctianable. I gree that wasn't non-functioning, but I do believe the guy was a trouble maker. Your making more than is really there. I think the more you delve, the more disappointed you'll be. So we have this larger than life guy who self-destructs on a consistant basis untill he is finally put out of his misery. I read a source who said, regarding Pauls death, that "Paul was being Paul" before he skull was crushed. Thats some reputation to be carrying around. I tell you one thing, he life story would've made for an equally good read as "a river".
DeletePaul did attend Dartmouth and I've seen his photographs in yearbooks from 1929 or so. Going on memory here. I have them but don't know how to post them here. I believe he only went there 2 years - again have to check facts. College was a different thing then. Anyway - certainly am not making too much of him. He's the tragic figure in one of the great pieces of literature in the 20th century. It should just be left at that but something always left me wanting, like Norman, to understand him better. Nice seeing that there are others who feel the same - thanks for your response. Nice to hear other perspective.
ReplyDeleteHe was a preacher's son. Do you know very many of them? They are the hellers in any town. Paul was no exception. A close reading of Norman's novel tells us Paul refused to "eat his oatmeal," as a little child, displaying a defiant will that Norman didn't have. As a former newspaper reporter, I will tell you that reporters drink more than the average bear, and many of them--especially in the 1930s--are and were alcoholics. Remember the line how Norman met his brother at 10am and he looked like a man fixing to buy a drink? At best, Paul had a drinking problem. If you read the history of Montana, you will learn that the Anaconda Company controlled most of everything in the state--the newspapers, the forests, the mills, the minerals, smelters, railroads. A few crusading newspapers opposed the company, and Paul worked for them. Which I'm sure made him even more combative--his newspaper work is sarcastic, sharp and well-reported. And well written. But worrying about the details of his life won't yield much. What's more interesting to me is how his life and death affected his brother, father and mother, and how, from such a bungled life, Norman created a masterpiece. Of course, teaching Lear and Hamlet for almost 40 years helped him frame the story. JMHO PS Of course he was competing with Norman!
DeleteWhat caused Jessie's death at such a relatively young age?
ReplyDeleteSmoking too many god damn cigarettes.
DeleteEmphysema.
DeleteActually, it was esophageal cancer. She had emphysema for 18 years from diagnosis, and she never stopped smoking.
DeleteI re-read the book a couple of years ago. I also watched the move and paid close attention to Paul's death. The move never really says that he died here in MT...but it sort of implies it. I live in Clinton, MT and was wondering if anyone knew where the MacLeans lived here in Missoula.
ReplyDeleteThe house is at 302 S.5th W. St. kattycorner from the church. You can search it just to be sure, but that's where I found it. The graves of Paul, John and Clara are at the city cemetery not far off Cemetery Road in block 58.
DeleteI'm curious. I loved the book, the movie, and the characters (family), but why does everyone call Paul beautiful, as he was full of vices he refused to abandon, or even deal with? He was truly loved by his family, but how would others know him as beautiful?
ReplyDeleteGoogle his name "Paul Davidson Maclean" and you will see a man who looks like a movie star.
DeleteYes..Paul Maclean was EXCEPTIONALLY good looking!!
Delete1930's Chicago, shattered bones in one hand, dumped in an alley, tendency to accrue gambling debts, tendency to fight, mostly mob run gambling joints in Chacago in the 30's. Love the movie, but there seems like little mystery in the real life murder of Paul
ReplyDeleteIs Andrew Kelly still amongst the living??? I enjoyed reading the perspective of a family member. I hope you are well Sir and thank you for allowing us to learn additional information about the Maclean family. It is appreciated. The movie is a haunting reminder of a day gone by and every time it's on it draws me in to watch.
ReplyDeleteRespectfully
Unknown comment is Dr.Jim
DeleteThe same here. Hope Andrew is doing well. Ken
ReplyDeleteHi Ken, yes I am. I live in Vancouver, British Columbia. The weather has reduced my copd
DeleteHi Andrew, great to find that you are doing good in Vancouver, BC. I always miss the Montana rivers!
DeleteAll the best,
Ken
Osaka, Japan
I have wondered about the shattered bones in Paul's hand and whether that was something Norman told his father to make him feel better. Pauls' girlfriend wasn't black, she was Irish, and she married two years later and died a wealthy and generous woman. She was a U of C graduate. Norman said that in Chicago, as in Helena, Paul would take long walks at night, even though Norman cautioned him not to do so. Having gone to the U of C, I will tell you that neighborhoods can change with one street, and there are places you don't go. But Paul wouldn't listen. He was carrying a lot of money, having cashed a check for two weeks of work, when he set out, and he was robbed. In 1938, a lot of people were suffering and poor. I think he was in the wrong place at the wrong time--someone asked for his wallet, he said no, got into a fight and got whacked on the back of the head with something--a blackjack, a gun butt, something that didn't cut his head but crushed his skull. I'm sure Norman felt guilt and grief at his brother's death because he had brought him to Chicago and helped him get the job at the university. But Paul was on a self-destructive path for years....
ReplyDeleteWho was Paul's girlfriend if you know so much about her?
DeleteBeautiful movie, and a wonderful piece of Americana. To answer your question, Paul's girlfriend was named Lois Nash, and she lived on Kenwood Avenue. He was with her the afternoon and evening before he was killed, and left her place at 10:15 to go home. She told the police that they planned to marry even though they had only known each other for a couple of months.
DeleteThat comment about Paul and the black lady was from a third hand source. I do not know if he had his facts mixed up or it was the time before his death he went to a ball game with a lady who was African American or if he did at all. Most people telling me are older and may have events wrong. That came from tge Davidson side Paul's mother's side.
DeleteI would first of all say I love the movie , I watch the movie about once a year, usually on a miserable day when I wish I was out fishing. My question is do you know if by chance if Paul or Norman new or wrote about Joe Brooks another avid fly fisherman that fished that area I thank you for your response..........Pat Phillips
ReplyDeleteWhile the "whydunnit" is interesting, I want to put this out there: the movie is a coming-of-age story and the book is about moving toward maturity. Even though the movie arrived when I was in my early 20s I was disappointed at what was lost by changing the time-frame. In particular, J&N's relationship after years of marriage was much more interesting than them meeting and falling in love.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I love the movie. But I think Redford missed a chance to make a masterpiece about grownups (which the story is).
The movie, however, is closely based on a novella, and the relationship between Jessie and Norman is barely mentioned in the novella. Indeed, through most of the novella we know that Norman and Jessie are already married and there's no discussion on how they met at all. All of that was added by Redford and, for that matter, without knowing more, it's hard to know how much of that was fictionalized or based, probably loosely, on actual family history. We're told in the novella that Jessie is from Wolf Point Montana, "Scottish", and tall, but that's about it.
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Deletehttps://www.findagrave.com/memorial/28112738
ReplyDeletePaul Davidson Maclean
Birth 2 Nov 1905
Clarinda, Page County, Iowa, USA
Death 2 May 1938 (aged 32)
Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, USA
Burial
Missoula Cemetery
Missoula, Missoula County, Montana, USA Show Map
Plot Grave 6, Lot 4, Block 58, Inter# 06424
I love so much all about this family story. I lost the number of times I watched the movie.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to say if someone has some text writeen by Paul. Where can I find?
Thanks for all comments.
Franco Almeida from Brazil.
My belief on the reason Paul was said to have died in Montana rather than Illinois was the simple fact of love and respect for his brother Paul. It was Norman's way of giving his brother back to the Montana of both their youth's. His way of honoring his memory. He felt he took away the best part of his brother by bringing him to Chicago, when his heart only belonged in Montana. The reason I believe he had Paul die in Montana was a final gift to his brother, a final resting place for all of the MacLean family.
ReplyDeleteI think there's a lot to that, but there's also simply the aspect that having him die in Illinois, in the novella, would have really taken away from the theme of novella. There's a naturalistic them to it, which relocation to Chicago runs contrary to.
DeleteMan. I just watched this movie for the first time and Im captivated and wanting to know more. So much said with few words in the movie! I’ll be reading the book next. A news article I read said the brothers had 5 sisters!?! Where are they in the narrative? Does anyone know what they thought about their brothers and if they passed stories down to their kids?
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ReplyDeleteThe death of Paul Maclean haunted his brother Norman and drives the narrative of A River Runs through It, both the book and movie. The facts surrounding his death have proved elusive, however, distorted by rumor, supposition, the passage of time, and imperfect memory. Home Waters: A Chronicle of Family and a River by John N. Maclean, Paul’s nephew and Norman’s son, sets out in detail that only a relative and seasoned Chicago newspaper man could provide what can and cannot be known about Paul’s murder. What exactly were the circumstances? Where, when and how did Paul die?
ReplyDeleteHome Waters is due out in June 2021 from Custom House, an imprint of HarperCollins publisher. The book contains woodcut illustration by Wesley Bates and is heavily illustrated with previously unpublished photos. John N. Maclean was a reporter, writer and editor for The Chicago Tribune for thirty years before he turned to writing books in1995, starting with Fire on the Mountain. Home Waters is his sixth book. He currently is working on a book about the Yarnell Hill Fire of 2013 with a partner, Holly Neill.
From the publisher: A book that will resonate with everyone who feels deeply rooted to a place, Home Waters is chronicle of a family that claimed a river, from one generation to the next, of how this family came of age in the 20th century and later as they scattered across the country, faced tragedy and success, yet were always drawn back to the waters that bound them together. Here are the true stories behind the beloved characters fictionalized in A River Runs Through It, including the Reverend Maclean, the patriarch who introduced the family to fishing; Norman, who balanced a life divided between literature and the tug of the rugged West; and tragic yet luminous Paul, whose mysterious death has haunted the family and led John to investigate his murder and reveal new details in these pages. A gorgeous memoir about multiple generations of a family and the river they call home, and a celebration of the timeless art of fishing, Maclean beautifully portrays the inextricable ways our personal histories are linked to the places we come from—our home waters.
"Finally, a brilliant, intimate, and reliable chronicle of the remarkable Maclean family and the origins of a great book, welded seamlessly to the memorable angling days and writing life of a central member. I loved Home Waters." --Nick Lyons, author of Fire in the Straw and other works, also wrote the first review of A River Runs through It, calling it a classic of American literature.
"I can honestly say I loved Home Waters. Reading it felt like a visit with old friends--the characters from A River Runs through It—who you haven’t seen in a long while, during which you learned some things you’d never known before. John N. Maclean’s book does a wonderful job of illustrating the importance of family and place—something we can all relate to even if the particulars of our stories are very different." --Kirby Lambert, Outreach and Interpretation Program Manager, Montana Historical Society
Paul's death I was not comfortable with in John's book. I am a cousin to him and know the Davidsons. Thry told me a different story as thry were notified of Paul's death. His right hand was broken, not mentioned in the book.
DeleteI am John's Canadian cousin
DeleteThe death of Paul haunts me. And I believe Biblepreacher relayed theory closest to fact. Thank you--SJP
ReplyDeleteIn both the book and the movie, I had a hard enough time understanding Norman's leaving the west for Dartmouth. And his brother? If Paul was the same guy as the book/movie showed him to be, how in the hell could he have given up Montana for an urban toilet like Chicago? God, he would have had to have been an unhappy camper! Obviously,the book/movie are fiction.
ReplyDeletePaul Davidson Maclean
ReplyDeleteBIRTH 2 Nov 1905
Clarinda, Page County, Iowa, USA
DEATH 2 May 1938 (aged 32)
Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, USA
BURIAL
Missoula Cemetery
Missoula, Missoula County, Montana, USA Show Map
PLOT Grave 6, Lot 4, Block 58, Inter# 06424
MEMORIAL ID 28112738 · View Source
ReplyDeleteBIRTH 28 Jul 1862
Pictou County, Nova Scotia, Canada
DEATH 30 Dec 1941 (aged 79)
Missoula, Missoula County, Montana, USA
BURIAL
Missoula Cemetery
Missoula, Missoula County, Montana, USA Show Map
PLOT Grave 5, Lot 4, Block 58, Inter#07217
MEMORIAL ID 28112573 · View Source
I just watched the movie for the first time and as soon as I heard their last name I perked up immediately. I am a direct descendant of Clan Maclean in Scotland. I have not heard this story nor of the Macleans in Montana however I am very curious to know how closely related we may be! My Great Grandmother Margaret Anderson Maclean married to Harry Anderson in Michigan. Nice to see fellow Macleans on this post as well, Blessed Be cousins.
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All my info was given to me by people who passed away a few years ago. Being older and time might have obscured events. I had to do some more research and I will retract that Paul worked for the Chicago Tribune. Clara Davidson's brother's wife gave me that idea as she was a former genealogist in Manitoba who has passed. Her info was secondhand. I still do believe Paul died due to gambling right hand broken was a sign back in the day and a signature warning from the mob or wanting to be a mobster to make it look like that. However, if it was a botched robbery, how many robberies break a right hand? Also, some info came from Clara Maclean nee Davidson sister's grandson who passed away 2 years ago. Yes, I am related to the A River Runs Through It Macleans and the relation part is true my great-great grandfather knew the Davidsons long before the Rev. Maclean came into town and he knew the Rev from Nova Scotia were cousins.
ReplyDelete